My husband and I are former missionaries/ music ministers in Pentecostal churches and YWAM. We left YWAM after being mistreated and kicked out onto the streets of Hong Kong with our 2 young children. God has been faithful and I now seek to help others who have experienced spiritual abuse from YWAM or any other church or organizations.
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I stumbled upon this blog while googling about YWAM being a cult… Tiffany Johnson, the woman who was shot and killed at YWAM in Arvada CO last December was one of my best friends. After her death, her YWAM “friends” left a really bad taste in my mouth for anything YWAM. They belittled the relationships that Tiff had at home and one of them even went so far as to tell one of my friends that all Tiff cared about was YWAM and the people at YWAM. This all proved how little they knew about who Tiffany was, but it still hurt a lot. I struggled so much in my grief over wondering how much Tiff really cared for me because these people were so possessive of her. I did find the proof I needed in a book that she gave to me and wrote on the inside “to my best friend forever and sister in Christ” I thank God that I found that because I was being so destroyed over being led to believe that I wasn’t important. I am so glad that I am not alone in thinking that YWAM is maybe not such a great thing. I am very interested in reading more about your experience (I haven’t really had time to read deeply yet). Thank you for sharing your experience.
Megs,
From my experience, any notion of YWAMers belittling a friendship with those outside of the group is done strictly subconsciously, or unknowingly and unintentionally.
YWAM has a vague understanding of itself—it is not held together by doctrines, contracts, or ancient traditions—so it requires the telling, and retelling, of particular stories to reinforce its sense of self. The tragic shooting in Arvada will invariably be something which YWAMers will cast, and recast, in a particular way to help grieve, understand, and again, to reinforce their sense of self.
Because of this constant retelling of stories, it becomes difficult for a group like YWAM to transcend their own subculture (bubble) and to see those outside—even those just across the street. So, if you feel as though YWAMers have belittled you and your friendship with Tiffany, it is most likely due to insecurity—that is, issues of their identity—as opposed to a personal attack upon you.
I hope this helps.
who the heck is this guy going around using my moniker. Dude, I own Konastephen@prettymucheverydomainthere is. Stop it!! You’re giving Stephen’s a bad name. If you’re the campus undertaker Stephen, you missed out Foth. I started using this before you got your blue light even. YWAM’s misbehaviour is clear and undeniable. Stop trying to defend it!
Robertson Gregory wrote:
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robertson Gregory
Subject: MGT still taught in YWAM!
Dear Dr. ########
I have known for quite some time that YWAM leaders are still actively and purposely deceiving the public into believing that MGT is a thing of the past. But after coming from that worldview and knowing how deceptive we were with the false teaching we believed; and knowing how deep in the soul of the person such a worldview reaches, I knew that it was still being taught, although more secretly for the last 25 years.
From time to time I come across evidence showing MGT’s presence, but today I found this website by checking on the name Wedge Alman. I knew Alman in 1973-75 when I was at the Sunland base and know that he is now the highest leader in all YWAM for ministry in Spanish speaking countries.
This 2006 information is conclusive evidence that Moral Government Theology is not only alive and well, but is being aggressively distributed and taught in YWAM.
I think the reason the organization is publishing YWAM purchases of their materials is because they are not real proud of YWAM’s purposeful deception in relation to MGT, believing that YWAM should stand up and be counted for what its primary worldview is, instead of shrinking back in cowardice and deception.
The main YWAM website has approximately 4 pages of Boyd’s stuff, much of it promoting the idea that God doesn’t know the future (the Openness View). But when people see that, almost none of them know that it is simply the old teaching of Moral Government Theology that has been taught in YWAM since the 60s.
The following is the information I found at http://www.revivaltheologypromotion.org/rtpvarious.htm Sorry for the length, but this is valuable information if you want to “know the truth and make it known” about YWAM:
Revised, August 4, 2006
High Distribution Continues This Summer
The summer continues busy with distribution of books at no charge to the requesters. In the last three weeks we sent Peter Smith 110 copies of a Gordon Olson book for West Africa . LeRoy and Heidi Whitman and kids with Wycliffe are up from Mexico for a several months, and we sent them about 30 books by Olson and Finney for use in their United States ministry. We sent Latin America YWAM director Wedge Alman copies of Greg Boyd’s primer on the openness of God, 100 copies Spanish and 12 copies English. — August 4, 2006
410 Books Sent to India Today for Dr. Kali
320 of the Charles Finney chapter booklets were sent to India today. These are gifts to RTP from Men for Missions: 160 Growth in Grace, 80 Conversion True and False, 40 Three Kinds of Professing Christians, 40 Justification by Faith. Additionally, 90 copies of Gordon Olson’s were sent. These may arrive in India before Bhaskar’s August arrival but more likely while he is there for two months. — July 11, 2006
50 Copies of Rare Charles Finney Book to India Today
Destiny Ministries in Kentucky sent us 50 copies of Crystal Christianity published by Whitaker House many years ago. These were sent to India today to arrive by mid August when the main teacher will arrive from New York to distribute them for two months. — June 20, 2006
64 Spanish Copies of Gordon Olson’s Main Book for YWAMers
On June 5, we sent 64 copies of La Verdad Te Hara Libre to a YWAM leader in Tyler , Texas . Thanks to RTP supporters who funded this earlier this year. We also sent 13 English copies to a pastor in Illinois who teaches at YWAM occasionally.– June 7, 2006
40 Books Sent to YWAM in Puerto Rico
On April 22, we sent 40 copies of Dr. J. W. Jepson’s El Amore: La Base De Todo to YWAM in Puerto Rico for their school for late May. This is Pastor Jepson’s re-write of the most important part of Charles Finney’s systematic theology.– April 29, 2006
150 Books Sent to India
Yesterday we sent 150 books for Dr. BK, who expects to be in India this summer again. We sent 12 copies of Finney’s Systematic Theology, 4 copies of Finney’s Pastoral Theology, 12 copies of Gordon Olson’s major work, 124 copies of his Holiness and Sin, and 7 copies of Heman Lincoln’s work on the history of doctrine. We still want to send a few hundred of Finney’s smaller books available from Whitaker House for about a dollar each when we have the money. Our mode of mail takes 8-10 weeks to get to India.– April 9, 2006
Dr. BK Returns from India Trip
Early this week Dr. BK returned home to New York after an eleven week ministry trip to his native India . We chatted on the phone a bit on Monday night. The many Olson and Finney books that RTP had earlier sent by mail bag arrived and were placed with pastors and training school libraries. BK taught at three institutions from Gordon Olson’s manual. He distributed more CD’s with the entire Telegue translation of Gordon Olson’s works. Thanks to those who contributed toward this. His left arm is still useless after a stroke a few years ago, yet he wants to return again to India in August. He is preparing a list of titles that he would like us to mail there by June 1. (It takes about two months to get books there at $1 a pound). We would need approximately several hundred dollars towards this; perhaps a publishing project will be completed there again too. — March 22, 2006
Providing Books for YWAM Director’s Teaching
Yesterday we received notice that YWAM director Wedge Alman received 110 copies of Greg Boyd’s God of the Possible (30 English and 80 Spanish) from us. Thanks to those who contributed toward this gift that Mr. Alman requested for students he plans to teach in the coming months. — March 18, 2006
20th Anniversary Offers
RTP sent out its first items in January 1986. How do we celebrate? We continue to promote truth. Our friends at Gospel Truth Ministries offer five CD’s covering the doctrines of American revival. This is good! Also, Gordon Olson’s 30 hour DVD series (1978) has been produced by Procla Media. See our “Present Special Offer” page. — March 5, 2006
Spanish Truth Manual — Second Printing.
Today the printing and delivery of 362 copies of the Spanish edition of Gordon Olson’s The Truth Shall Make You Free are completed. These are primarily intended for YWAM schools. Thanks to all who made this possible. — February 15, 2006
Translation with YWAM in Forteleza , Brazil
The year started with the completion of the translation of Gordon Olson’s The Truth Shall Make You Free into Portuguese for the YWAM school in Forteleza , Brazil . Thanks to those who gave generously to this project last summer.– February 15, 2006
Three Sets of Finney’s Major Works Sent for West Africa
On Tuesday RTP sent three copies each of Finney’s Systematic Theology, Autobiography, and Revival Lectures to Two Witnesses Ministry in Michigan . They will be flown to Ghana first quarter to be placed in pastor training schools.– December 1, 2005
Gospel Truth’s Gifts for India
During the last week in October we sent 153 books to our training contact in Andhra Pradesh , India . 135 of these were Finney books sent as a gift from Gospel Truth Ministries in California . Most notably were 64 copies of Principles of Sanctification.– October 31, 2005
123 Books Sent to India
Yesterday RTP exhausted its supply of small Finney books. We sent over $400 worth of books to our contact in India . 74 were authored by Finney; 43 were by Gordon Olson. The last of our Roland Allen books and a rare copy of John Driver’s major work were also sent.– October 8, 2005
Gordon Olson’s Works Preserved for Telegu Speaking India .
We are pleased to say that in September the six books by Gordon Olson that had been previously translated and printed in the Telegu language are now available on CDROM for distribution and preservation.– October 3, 2005
YWAM Teacher in England Requests Materials
Last week a teacher with YWAM in the United Kingdom requested works by Harry Conn, Gordon Olson, and L. D. McCabe. We sent the books and videos on Thursday.– September 19, 2005
Frequently Asked Question on Gordon Olson’s Writings
Gordon Olson had planned to publish ten booklets. We know that The Moral Government of God, Holiness and Sin, and The Entrance of Sin Into the World were published originally by Men for Missions and later the first two by RTP. What happened to the other seven booklets?
We answer: The fourth and fifth were posthumously published by RTP in 1993 as one book, The Kindness of God Our Saviour. After the first three booklets were published by Men for Missions, Mr. Olson made a decision to focus on one volume titled Sharing Your Faith, somewhat incorporating all 10 booklets, those published and those not. Then in 1980, he revised and published as The Truth Shall Make You Free. RTP now publishes this volume in English and Spanish. — 08/16/04
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“Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.” Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV)
Ha. You nailed it. MGT or moral government teaching ala Gordon Olson is a rehash of an old Christian heresy first rejected by the early Church in the 4th century. Loren was confronted about it in the early 80s by several of YWAM’s other regular teachers including first and foremost Dr. Glenn Martin. He all but requested (failing to provide critical leadership) only that school leaders no longer invite Gordon Olson but did not make it clear that the reason was because of this erroneous theology. As a result the teaching continued to circulate in YWAM, thanks in no small part to Winkie Pratney and, as you say, the leadership of YWAM’s Texas bases.
The gist of the teaching is that God is limited in knowledge and in power, being subject to the constraints of time. In other words, God has no real knowledge of the future, because, as Winkie says, it hasn’t happened yet. The orthodox view of the matter is that God is outside of time and is both omniscient and omnipotent. The further implications of MGT is that God changes in response to experiences and of course to our choices. This is a subtle but substantial difference from the orthodox view which is that God is eternally unchanging and sets out propositions for us and that so long as we are headed in one direction, his response is one thing, but that when we change, his response is another. The MGT view is directly contradictory to God’s revelation of himself in Scripture, that he is the same yesterday, today and forever.
While all this might seem like angels dancing on the head of a pin to some people, where it really begins to impact our lives is in the belief that there is no one definitive “Biblical worldview” but instead that there are as many biblical worldviews as there are believers. This is a mirror image of the idea in society at large that everyone’s “truth” is as good as anyone else’s. In fact, the mental health industry considers it a symptom of psychosis to believe in an objectively real God whose perspective is definitive for all reality. This may be part of the reason YWAM has backed away from teaching real Truth. The battle for truth in YWAM in regards to counselling was largely lost in the 80s and 90s, thanks in no small measure to the heretical influence of Donna Livingston in Kona and the complicity of the David Boyd Kona leadership.
In recent years, MGT has resurfaced in YWAM in the form of Open God theology. Relativism has accompanied it like a shroud, revealing itself in such things as Lynn Green’s signature in his capacity as “International Chairman” of YWAM in 2008 of a relativistic ecumenical document authored by the Yale Divinity School, calling for Christianity and Islam to engage in “dialogue” without condemnation or judgment. It is also evident in his “Common Word” project, and in such teachings as those given in DTS by various Harpenden teachers that for instance, the Creation account in Genesis is no more than an allegorical mythical story, devised by the Jews to counteract the more popular Gilgamesh account at the time. This is the full weight of 20th century theological heresy come to roost in YWAM.
So long as there is no regard for truth that is true and not also untrue in YWAM, Jesus, the Truth, stands more completely ignored in the shadows than he ever did in Loren’s dream about the first ship. The Holy Spirit cannot truly operate in such an environment, hence the “need” for control because of the lack of anointing or miraculous moment-by-moment leading. Instead of genuinely hearing from God and responding in the way that early YWAM outreach and school leaders did, today’s YWAM leaders are arbitrary and capricious, following their own often-mistaken gut feelings, subject to the whims of their egos. Jen’s family’s experience is very common. I’ve seen it all too often.
The key to recovering the lost anointing in YWAM is to fully repent of the erroneous teaching. Unfortunately, YWAM is now replete with people in leadership (like the Kona SBS folks) who have spent the better part of the last few decades creating their own little authoritarian fiefdoms, entrenching themselves into areas of “expertise” in which they rule the roost, jealously guarding against all comers and protecting their “careers” as viciously as any mid-level manager/bureaucrats in any other organization or corporation. To see repentance take root and bring back the anointing, these people must go.
But who will lead? Loren is like the old king David, incapable of directing his lieutenants, unsure of their true loyalties, bunkered away in his Kona mansion and at the mercy of his wife and son and their wounded, limited, uninspired views of what needs to be done. There is no Solomon waiting in the wings to take the reigns. There is no Nathan or Bathsheba, loyal to the original call of God on David’s kingship. There are only Adonijahs and Absaloms. God help us.
Pray for YWAM. The Enemy is inside the gates.
Hi, im 25 years old now, and i just finished my dts from chaing mai, thailand.and to this day it still hunts me of what happened to me and to me friends.
after reading you blog, and stories, i think i will write to Loren Cunningham, about what,’actually happned in my school’.
Yes most of what you stated is true and happened during my lecture phrase.
like the confession sin,’i had no recent sins to confess and felt that whatever happened to me in my past , has being forgive and washed by the blood of Jesus.(isaiahi18)
no i didnt feel nor felt any to confess , esp to people whom it does not concern.my lecturer was a philippino YWAmmer.
and for my small church week, since i was raised up in a big baptist church, it was totally shunned.
now i am a lady of opinions and would be open in my arguments as a result of which my leaders called me a ,’big head’ some even wrote it on my journal!
another senior leader american would use cuss words like F.
and none of the staff were regular sunday church goers, in fact my base director and his family never go to church nor is involved in any local church in thailand!his kids have never stepped inside a sunday school room.
eventually i found a non denomination international church,(after much praying) and was a regular there every sunday.i was laughed for doing so.
but what really affected me, was how they kicked out a senior leader and our worship leader for being close to me.
we were well aware of the,’rules’ about relationships between a boy and a girl.and i even shared my feeling regarding him to my base directors wife.(which i thought was the rught thing to do)and besides exchanging sms, and snacks to each other there was never any unappriorate behaviour (no kisisng no holding hands, no standing alone in dark corners, no sitting together in close proximity)on our part, but after ONE discussion with him,on a one on one setting, he was kicked out the next week.it was a shock to me as well as to him.what surprise me was although other students were so touchy , and going out together alone, for even 3 months every weekend.nothing was done to them.
its being almost 8 months now, and i still have hurts.
my friend, he has grown up in a ywam setting, all his life and takes it much harder.
there was gossip, slander, and lots of backstabbing.and when i questioned my leaders, i never got a straight reply.to this day i wonder , what if i was a thai, would things be different.
most of the ywam ministries are run by americans and other foreigners , and when i converse with the local people, there is not talk of encouraging the local people in leadership positions at all.
and my friend shared with me, how he has being involved in this dts school for 7 years, and every suggestion, comment, or question was put down by the leader, and ,’common sense ‘outside ywam was nonsense.
they even told him, and me, that we dont know God!!!how can any christian leader ever say that to another christian.
i am glad to be out now..and yes my list can go on and on.i recently got accepted in one of their ministries, but after sending an e mail enquiring about their,’church’habits, i was rejected again…i even started to think what if this was a cult?cz there will be wolves among the sheep.
i will be applying to a bible seminary and grounding myself more in Gods word.despite my ywam leaders wishes.
truth and love.in Jesus.alone.