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	<title>Comments on: Is YWAM a Cult?</title>
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	<description>Seeking truth, even if it hurts</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:06:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: robere</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>robere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-271</guid>
		<description>Reply to &#039;Barb&#039; (4 Aug 2009) who made reference to my previous entries on this blog.   Thanks Barb for your acknowledgement of my concerns and comments about YWAM and the views of some of the organization&#039;s leaders.  Yes, I think I know where you are coming from and I am very pleased that education has been a vehicle to freedom, as has been my own experience.  Viva education and rational thinking!   The sad thing is that many of the older leaders in YWAM, who continue to espouse such a narrow world view, are my former colleagues toward whom I harbour no animousity.   I trust that I would still realte to them with love and grace should they come across my path.  Interestingly I faced this challenge only early this year; quite an event as I live in an isolated area of Planet Earth and rarely get to meet old Ywammers.  The individual in question now works for another very fundamentalist US-based Chrisitan organization that promotes creationism, home-schooling and other extremely conservative causes.  He happens to have a Phd from a respected secular university and  I always consider it a privilege to discuss life and related matters with him; albeit generally by email these days.  When he  telephoned me and asked if he might visit me (he was in town presenting seminars to local Chrisitan leaders) I was determined that I would keep our contact on a friendly level as he is a dear YWAM colleague of mine from many years ago - I actually met him when I ran a Summer of Service and he and a lovely young lady were my only takers (a team of 4 including my partner)!  When he visited recently I fed him local seafood which he enjoyed immensely as he is a keen fisherman in his home country.  He also enjoyed some of the local wine.  We both enjoyed our time together and  somehow managed to avoid debate over obvious philosophical differences.  Maybe age makes us all realise that there are more important things in life (like relationships) and besides, some people just do not change and there is no use in trying to change them.  &quot;Just enjoy the fellowship&quot; is my new motto, and only  speak out when someone&#039;s point of view is likely to lead to harm.  &quot;What a joy&quot; as I once heard one old, very well known Dutch woman state in reference to the grace of God, when she addressed the Ywammers during the Munich Olympic Games Outreach in 1972!  Almost brings tears to my eyes at nearly one o&#039;clock in the morning in Down Under.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to &#8216;Barb&#8217; (4 Aug 2009) who made reference to my previous entries on this blog.   Thanks Barb for your acknowledgement of my concerns and comments about YWAM and the views of some of the organization&#8217;s leaders.  Yes, I think I know where you are coming from and I am very pleased that education has been a vehicle to freedom, as has been my own experience.  Viva education and rational thinking!   The sad thing is that many of the older leaders in YWAM, who continue to espouse such a narrow world view, are my former colleagues toward whom I harbour no animousity.   I trust that I would still realte to them with love and grace should they come across my path.  Interestingly I faced this challenge only early this year; quite an event as I live in an isolated area of Planet Earth and rarely get to meet old Ywammers.  The individual in question now works for another very fundamentalist US-based Chrisitan organization that promotes creationism, home-schooling and other extremely conservative causes.  He happens to have a Phd from a respected secular university and  I always consider it a privilege to discuss life and related matters with him; albeit generally by email these days.  When he  telephoned me and asked if he might visit me (he was in town presenting seminars to local Chrisitan leaders) I was determined that I would keep our contact on a friendly level as he is a dear YWAM colleague of mine from many years ago &#8211; I actually met him when I ran a Summer of Service and he and a lovely young lady were my only takers (a team of 4 including my partner)!  When he visited recently I fed him local seafood which he enjoyed immensely as he is a keen fisherman in his home country.  He also enjoyed some of the local wine.  We both enjoyed our time together and  somehow managed to avoid debate over obvious philosophical differences.  Maybe age makes us all realise that there are more important things in life (like relationships) and besides, some people just do not change and there is no use in trying to change them.  &#8220;Just enjoy the fellowship&#8221; is my new motto, and only  speak out when someone&#8217;s point of view is likely to lead to harm.  &#8220;What a joy&#8221; as I once heard one old, very well known Dutch woman state in reference to the grace of God, when she addressed the Ywammers during the Munich Olympic Games Outreach in 1972!  Almost brings tears to my eyes at nearly one o&#8217;clock in the morning in Down Under.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-251</guid>
		<description>Lauren; Go to school. Don&#039;t waste your time or your money with this organisation; you will regret it later. Blessings, Barb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lauren; Go to school. Don&#8217;t waste your time or your money with this organisation; you will regret it later. Blessings, Barb</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-250</guid>
		<description>Marie;
 I&#039;m sorry I only now read your post; hope you read this one! If you wish to contact me by email, mine is montanamombo@yahoo.com.
 You know, I have a wonderful life with my daughter and grandbabies, and yet when I begin to talk about YWAM, it suddenly seems like yesterday. 
 Don&#039;t get me wrong! I appreciate being able to discuss this with others, because my experience affected me profoundly..more than I knew. I thought I was crazy for many years, until the internet afforded me the opportunity to find others who had been through the same thing.
I hope to hear from you. Barb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marie;<br />
 I&#8217;m sorry I only now read your post; hope you read this one! If you wish to contact me by email, mine is <a href="mailto:montanamombo@yahoo.com">montanamombo@yahoo.com</a>.<br />
 You know, I have a wonderful life with my daughter and grandbabies, and yet when I begin to talk about YWAM, it suddenly seems like yesterday.<br />
 Don&#8217;t get me wrong! I appreciate being able to discuss this with others, because my experience affected me profoundly..more than I knew. I thought I was crazy for many years, until the internet afforded me the opportunity to find others who had been through the same thing.<br />
I hope to hear from you. Barb</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-249</guid>
		<description>Sweetie; 
 Don&#039;t give up. I went through hell at YWAM. They broke my spirit in so many ways, leaving me lost for years. I fought to survive, and one day found my way out of the pain. Today, 34 years later, I am thankful I didn&#039;t give up. I have a family, and there is joy in my life once again. You are worth so much more than what they projected onto you. Blessings! Barb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sweetie;<br />
 Don&#8217;t give up. I went through hell at YWAM. They broke my spirit in so many ways, leaving me lost for years. I fought to survive, and one day found my way out of the pain. Today, 34 years later, I am thankful I didn&#8217;t give up. I have a family, and there is joy in my life once again. You are worth so much more than what they projected onto you. Blessings! Barb</p>
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		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-248</guid>
		<description>Well stated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well stated!</p>
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		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-247</guid>
		<description>Please....YWAM is a well-organized cartel. If it weren&#039;t for the &#039;mentally unstable&#039;, they wouldn&#039;t have had ANY success, thus far. They deliberately target the young and impressionable, because they are the most easily swayed. 
Pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please&#8230;.YWAM is a well-organized cartel. If it weren&#8217;t for the &#8216;mentally unstable&#8217;, they wouldn&#8217;t have had ANY success, thus far. They deliberately target the young and impressionable, because they are the most easily swayed.<br />
Pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: julesverne</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-245</link>
		<dc:creator>julesverne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-245</guid>
		<description>&quot;The pure vision of Loren Cunningham?&quot;

Seriously?

I have recently become close with a family who practices what I find to be a particularly noxious form of evangelicalism. However, I believed it to be relatively harmless, until I began to see the signs of cult behavior and doctrine: obsession with confession and sin, demand for purity, milieu control, etc. 

This family is, of course, deeply entrenched in YWAM, and most of them have at least completed a DTS. I became curious about the organization, particularly so after I came across Loren Cunningham&#039;s name in the news recently.

For those who don&#039;t know, there was a major scandal recently in Washington, D.C. involving conservative Christian legislators committing and enabling adultery in their fraternity-style &quot;C-Street&quot; house. Even more appalling, the house is actually tax-exempt, as it is owned by YWAM of Washington, D.C. and Loren Cunningham. 

Pure vision, indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The pure vision of Loren Cunningham?&#8221;</p>
<p>Seriously?</p>
<p>I have recently become close with a family who practices what I find to be a particularly noxious form of evangelicalism. However, I believed it to be relatively harmless, until I began to see the signs of cult behavior and doctrine: obsession with confession and sin, demand for purity, milieu control, etc. </p>
<p>This family is, of course, deeply entrenched in YWAM, and most of them have at least completed a DTS. I became curious about the organization, particularly so after I came across Loren Cunningham&#8217;s name in the news recently.</p>
<p>For those who don&#8217;t know, there was a major scandal recently in Washington, D.C. involving conservative Christian legislators committing and enabling adultery in their fraternity-style &#8220;C-Street&#8221; house. Even more appalling, the house is actually tax-exempt, as it is owned by YWAM of Washington, D.C. and Loren Cunningham. </p>
<p>Pure vision, indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Freedom</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-244</guid>
		<description>Hi Lauren,

Abuse is any ill treatment. This includes any hurt, harm, offense, rudeness, cruelty, or misuse. There is really no good reason or justification for mistreating people in any context. It is forbidden by God (see Biblical commandments and law of love for God and your neighbor). It is especially hurtful in spiritual contexts because people seek God and spirituality when they are in need or hurting already. Or, they could be wanting to help others and impeded from doing so, by themselves being mistreated. So, when it occurs in such situations, it is considered spiritual abuse, because it happens in a spiritual context and it has spiritual impact. This should be a safe place for people but because of power hunger or personal agendas, it is not always the case. 

Spiritual abuse could affect your or someone else&#039;s faith or relationship with God. It could make Him look bad to a person and turn their heart away. That is very sorrowful to God (see the Bible).

Abuse can be spiritual, physical, mental, emotional or sexual in nature. It depends on the impact on the person and the intent of the harm. It can impact a person on many levels, so it can be emotional and spiritual, or sexual, emotional and spiritual, etc.

Never should a religious organization or members be abusive. But, realistically, we hear about it all the time. These are the things, I believe, people will answer for at the Last Day Judgement referred to in the Bible. That&#039;s just my opinion or educated guess.

Something to note: All the commandments in the Bible are relational. What I noticed is, the first three of the ten commandments are about our relationship with God, and the rest are about our relationships with each other. That tells me we are more inclined to sin against each other than God... or, there&#039;s more ways to sin against each other. Or, it could also indicate that the start of sinning against each other is a misalignment of our relationship with God. I think all of these is valid. Another thing to note is that the Holy Spirit is sent to help us fulfill the commandment to love. We cannot do it ourselves.

Spiritual abuse is a very bad and shameful thing and it&#039;s terribly hurtful. Some people never recover their faith. Some people become abusive themselves. That&#039;s why it&#039;s so terrible. You just don&#039;t know which way our treatment of each other will go. That&#039;s why we must be redeeming and constructive!

Hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lauren,</p>
<p>Abuse is any ill treatment. This includes any hurt, harm, offense, rudeness, cruelty, or misuse. There is really no good reason or justification for mistreating people in any context. It is forbidden by God (see Biblical commandments and law of love for God and your neighbor). It is especially hurtful in spiritual contexts because people seek God and spirituality when they are in need or hurting already. Or, they could be wanting to help others and impeded from doing so, by themselves being mistreated. So, when it occurs in such situations, it is considered spiritual abuse, because it happens in a spiritual context and it has spiritual impact. This should be a safe place for people but because of power hunger or personal agendas, it is not always the case. </p>
<p>Spiritual abuse could affect your or someone else&#8217;s faith or relationship with God. It could make Him look bad to a person and turn their heart away. That is very sorrowful to God (see the Bible).</p>
<p>Abuse can be spiritual, physical, mental, emotional or sexual in nature. It depends on the impact on the person and the intent of the harm. It can impact a person on many levels, so it can be emotional and spiritual, or sexual, emotional and spiritual, etc.</p>
<p>Never should a religious organization or members be abusive. But, realistically, we hear about it all the time. These are the things, I believe, people will answer for at the Last Day Judgement referred to in the Bible. That&#8217;s just my opinion or educated guess.</p>
<p>Something to note: All the commandments in the Bible are relational. What I noticed is, the first three of the ten commandments are about our relationship with God, and the rest are about our relationships with each other. That tells me we are more inclined to sin against each other than God&#8230; or, there&#8217;s more ways to sin against each other. Or, it could also indicate that the start of sinning against each other is a misalignment of our relationship with God. I think all of these is valid. Another thing to note is that the Holy Spirit is sent to help us fulfill the commandment to love. We cannot do it ourselves.</p>
<p>Spiritual abuse is a very bad and shameful thing and it&#8217;s terribly hurtful. Some people never recover their faith. Some people become abusive themselves. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s so terrible. You just don&#8217;t know which way our treatment of each other will go. That&#8217;s why we must be redeeming and constructive!</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-243</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-243</guid>
		<description>Hello everyone...I applied for a DTS @ the Sunshine Coast Base in Australia...does anyone have any feedback about this base about the experience or leadership there?  

Also, over and over you all have mentioned &quot;abuse&quot;...what are ou talking about exactly?!  Physically? What?! Spiritually meaning what-guilt?  How?  PLEASE be specific!!! I do not want to get myself into a bad situation...

Thank you!!!

Lauren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello everyone&#8230;I applied for a DTS @ the Sunshine Coast Base in Australia&#8230;does anyone have any feedback about this base about the experience or leadership there?  </p>
<p>Also, over and over you all have mentioned &#8220;abuse&#8221;&#8230;what are ou talking about exactly?!  Physically? What?! Spiritually meaning what-guilt?  How?  PLEASE be specific!!! I do not want to get myself into a bad situation&#8230;</p>
<p>Thank you!!!</p>
<p>Lauren</p>
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		<title>By: Freedom</title>
		<link>http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/#comment-242</guid>
		<description>All,

I wrote in earlier, back in &#039;07. Recently, I have had some insight about narcissistic personality disorder in leaders. In fact, there was a fairly recent study done that showed that in a leaderless situation, overwhelmingly, a narcissist will step up to the plate and take over. Narcissists are self-serving, self-elevating, power hungry, destructive people who are often found in leadership in the corporate, social and religious settings. They are very damaging to groups because they setup abusive interpersonal dynamics through hidden agendas, competition, manipulation, lack of empathy and a willingness to cost others to get something for themselves... that&#039;s entitlement. They are usually charismatic, attractive and/or gifted and possess basic leadership skills, like taking over and calling the shots. They have absolutely no regard for anyone other than themselves.

Recently I googled &quot;narcissistic religious leaders&quot; and gained alot of insight. This, I believe, is the root of the abuses we experience. The people that act this way think themselves entitled, more gifted, more valuable than others and will stop at nothing to gain power and admiration. They cloak their true disorder and twistedness with a religious exterior that seems caring or appropriate, and viola! You have a religious abuser! You&#039;ve got the disorder with the cover-up. So it&#039;s hard to detect. Religion is a perfect cover-up for personality disorders.

Anyway, this insight really put it all together for me. Now, I look for the narcissist in the bunch and determine things from there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All,</p>
<p>I wrote in earlier, back in &#8216;07. Recently, I have had some insight about narcissistic personality disorder in leaders. In fact, there was a fairly recent study done that showed that in a leaderless situation, overwhelmingly, a narcissist will step up to the plate and take over. Narcissists are self-serving, self-elevating, power hungry, destructive people who are often found in leadership in the corporate, social and religious settings. They are very damaging to groups because they setup abusive interpersonal dynamics through hidden agendas, competition, manipulation, lack of empathy and a willingness to cost others to get something for themselves&#8230; that&#8217;s entitlement. They are usually charismatic, attractive and/or gifted and possess basic leadership skills, like taking over and calling the shots. They have absolutely no regard for anyone other than themselves.</p>
<p>Recently I googled &#8220;narcissistic religious leaders&#8221; and gained alot of insight. This, I believe, is the root of the abuses we experience. The people that act this way think themselves entitled, more gifted, more valuable than others and will stop at nothing to gain power and admiration. They cloak their true disorder and twistedness with a religious exterior that seems caring or appropriate, and viola! You have a religious abuser! You&#8217;ve got the disorder with the cover-up. So it&#8217;s hard to detect. Religion is a perfect cover-up for personality disorders.</p>
<p>Anyway, this insight really put it all together for me. Now, I look for the narcissist in the bunch and determine things from there!</p>
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